
Rebecca and I have been dreaming a lot the last few weeks. Anxiety dreams of all sorts apparently brought on by COVIT – 19 and its ripple effects. Every morning I ask Rebecca about her dreams and she gives me the details. If you were to observe this interaction, you would see Rebecca talking and me listening. You might even give me a ‘good listener’ point or two because I am making eye contact, giving positive cues such as nodding my head or muttering something like ‘uh huh’ or ‘yes,’ and even occasionally asking a question. To you, the observer, I am nothing like the kid in the comic strip who can’t wait to turn the conversation to what he wants to talk about.

Except that I am that kid, all the time. I just hide it very, very well. My mind is constantly urging me to turn the conversation toward what I know, what I feel, and what I want. When I observe me, when I look at me, I see nothing but selfishness or self interest. One of America’s Founders, James Madison, knew this characteristic of human beings well, and it formed the foundation for how he theorized about the structure of American government and especially the need for separating powers. He put it this way in Federalist 51.
If men were angels, no government would be necessary…in framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
By separating powers horizontally into three branches, executive, legislative and judicial, and vertically, into national and state governments, Madison and the other Founders used the human “me-tendency” to do the work of limiting the possibility of a tyrannical government.
But what about the tyrannical me? In every conversation I have, I see the little boy who wants his way. I am reminded of my selfishness. This observation, made over and over gain, allows me to anticipate. I have come to know what is coming and in knowing and accepting and not judging I am able to counter this selfish tendency by reminding myself to focus outward, outside myself, toward my conversational partner. Yes, I fail at this much of the time. But there is always the next conversation to try again.
Madison understood human nature and used that understanding to craft a governmental structure that has worked well for over 200 years. For you and me, learning to observe ourselves gives us insight into how well we handle everyday things like conversations. With observation we gain understanding and with understanding the possibility for change.
The next conversation you have, put your face on that fly on the wall and observe your words, gestures and thoughts. And then ask – is that person a conversational narcissist? The rest will take care of itself.

Brett and Kate McKay have written a terrific little article, “The Art of Conversation: How to Avoid Conversational Narcissism,” that contains lots of insights and techniques.
























